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Hello and welcome to the Raise Capital Legally podcast and YouTube channel. Your go-to source for insights on

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raising capital the right way. We dive into topics that matter most to real estate syndicators and fund managers

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with live Q&A opportunities. Before we wrap up, I'm Krisha Young, co-host,

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business development director, and client success coach at Syndication Attorneys. And joining me is attorney

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Mola Bosland, senior securities attorney of syndication attorneys. Now, before we get started, please note that audio and

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video from this event will be posted on our podcast platform, YouTube channel, website, and social media, and will be

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made available to the public. You can ask questions at the end of this broadcast by raising your hand or typing

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it in the Q&A. Please note that information discussed during this event is of a general and educational nature

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and should not be construed as legal advice. Now today uh we are discussing

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affordable housing uh building affordable communities with barnominiums. Affordable housing is one of the biggest

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challenges of our time and Levi Aberly is tackling it headon with creative with

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a creative twist barnaminiums. After moving from Colorado to Indiana, Levi

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founded Fortified Buildings LLC to develop subdivisions of affordable energy efficient homes built with steel

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framing, radiant floor systems, and innovative construction methods. In this episode, Levi shares how his own journey

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building a combination horse barn and house inspired his business, why

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barnaminiums are gaining traction across the country, and how his company's creating homes that cost less, use less

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energy, and still look like traditional houses. If you've ever wondered how housing innovation can meet

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affordability without sacrificing quality, this conversation is for you. Hello, Levi. Hi, Mola.

1:52
Hello. Hi there. Hi. Hi. Um, th this is an exciting topic. I

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remember when we first met Levi, I was like, "A bar what?" And then Kim was

2:04
like, "A Baroa what?" And Ma like we're all like, "A what?" So, I watch TV.

2:11
Yeah. I watch HGTV every day. There you go.

2:17
Yeah. You know, it's we we get that quite a bit. Quite a bit. Wow. Well, you're here to talk about

2:24
that with us today. So, how about you start with telling us a little bit about your background and, you know, what inspired you to get into custom home

2:30
building? Yeah, absolutely. So, what the biggest trigger for me to get into custom home

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building was um a relocation of my life. Um, I met my wife in Colorado and her

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family is from the Indianapolis area and we wanted to be closer to her family as

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we grew into having a family and everything of our own. So, we moved back to Indiana. Um, we bought a piece of

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property uh side unseen and, you know, hired or got our loan on it and we had,

3:05
you know, about half down. So, we financed the rest. Um, after we closed on it, I scheduled to fly it out for a

3:12
day and took a look at the property and it was everything I could hope for. Couple months later, we moved out to

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Indiana and um, started coming up with a plan. Um, I started my business with the

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the idea that I wanted to build homes and how I was going to get there was

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very undetermined early on. So, I got into everything from fencing and

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renovations and conversions and additions. Um, and one thing led to another. Next

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thing I know, we were really, really at a tipping point. It's like

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we're going to do this now or we're going to buy a house, you know, or it's going to be put on the back burner for a

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long time. So, we ended up um jumping right into a home house build a year

4:04
after living in Indiana. So, it was it was very fun.

4:09
Interesting. So, with the first home build, was it just a regular standard

4:15
home or what did it automatically become the Barnuminium? it was the barnaminium. Um, so it fell into a really unique

4:24
situation. Um, my business being so so new didn't

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qualify I I as an employee an owner of that I didn't qualify to get a mortgage.

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So, we came up with a very strategic plan and my wife had been employed and

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had steady income as a W2 employee, which is favored from 90% of lenders

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that she qualified for not very much money. Um, but it was enough to get us a

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house built. It was $150,000. She alone qualified for construction loan.

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I ran every bit of it through my business to build our house. So, in a

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flip side tax benefit strategy, we didn't pay a single penny

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of that as income because the whole thing was on loan and being married, but

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it all shows up on the on the business as revenue.

5:25
Um, but that was kind of our strategic play that worked out very well.

5:31
Okay. Very cool though. Yeah. So for those that are not very familiar with it, can you like give us ex a

5:37
definition of exactly what a barnaminium is, right? And you know, why is it such a versatile housing solution?

5:44
Yeah, I I love this question because there's no true definition of a

5:49
barnominium. Um, I think the term did originally come from people that

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converted old barns. Um, particularly, um,

6:01
historical barns, you know, the big oak timbered framed barns that are still standing today and turning those into

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luxury apartments. And I think that's where the term origin originated from.

6:16
today. Depending on what part of the country you're in, they can mean different things. So

6:25
down in Texas is a big area for barnaminiums and pretty lavish luxury

6:30
barnaminiums. Those are traditionally steel framed um wood wood interior

6:39
big open concept beautiful barnaminiums.

6:45
They typically will have large uh sections of garage and shop spaces

6:52
attached to them. Um where I'm at now in Indiana and in the Midwest, a

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barnaminium out here is considered like a postframe structure that is typically

7:05
steals with or without a garage or a shop that falls into the classification

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of a barnaminium. in the banking eyes and from a lender's

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point of view even today that barnaminiums are a high risk

7:23
experimental product. So we're trying to revolutionize that

7:29
because it falls into the category of also being a stick built structure when it's made completely out of wood.

7:36
But we utilize methods in post framing that bring it

7:42
above expectations for, you know, a stick frame structure.

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So, it really depends on who you ask and it really depends where you're at.

7:54
Okay. But in essence, it is a modern way to build an affordable, energy efficient

8:00
home. Okay. So when you're talking about, you

8:06
know, taking it beyond the the stick frame, right? Um so you you guys really

8:13
you create the shell of the home, right? Yes. So that's essentially where most of

8:18
that definition lies is in the shell. Um,

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utilizing postframe construction, we save on

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a lot of areas of the home, primarily in the foundation. We don't have to install

8:35
a full foundation wall in most applications because

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all of the structures being supported by posts. So, we only need a footing that is beneath that particular post

8:47
throughout the wall that transfers the load back down to the earth. Stud

8:52
framing has to have a full stem wall or a basement foundation wall because you

8:58
have a load bearing all the way across the exterior wall and a lot of interior walls at that. Um,

9:06
then we save on sheathing products. Nine out of 10en times we don't have to plywood sheath or OSB sheath the

9:14
exterior or the roof of one of these structures. So we save a lot of forestry

9:21
products by having having this method in place. So on top of that I mean you also

9:28
have the other side of the uh advantages is that is the steel recycled? I don't

9:35
know, but it can be, you know, I don't know if the manufacturers are using recycled steel, but if you ever take it

9:42
off, it is recyclable. So, there's a savings there. So, everything on the

9:47
roof and the siding of the home is all recyclable. Okay. So, this also helps bring down the

9:55
cost, right, for home builders and for the homeowners. So, there you go. Making

10:01
it a lot more affordable. Um, so with this with the shell and the method and

10:06
the posts and the so now you don't have to really concentrate on a foundational slab. Um, how does this improve the

10:13
efficiency like the energy efficiency for the home? Yeah, that's a great question too. One that I love answering because thermal

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bridging is a huge um huge topic when it comes to stick

10:27
framing. Stick framing has in an average exterior wall about 18 to 20% of that

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exterior wall is wood transferring energy from the inside to the outside.

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So by doing a post frame construction, we have horizontal girts on the interior of

10:49
of the exterior wall and on the exterior of the exterior wall and they're not bridging the gap in between. So we have

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virtually zero thermal bridging with an inherently thicker exterior wall. So

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in compound with a lot of the other areas, we're already just in framing method

11:12
more energy efficient utilizing the same amount. It uses the same amount of studs

11:19
feet of wood to build the exterior wall. We just don't put the sheathing on there. So that's where the wood savings

11:25
comes in. Um so in the method it's

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completely reduced the amount of thermal bridging in modern um tradition or

11:36
modern methods on a stick framed structure. People alleviate that with

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either engineered lumber. Um, there's a couple of stud manufacturers that have

11:47
created very efficient studs. Um, or they'll wrap the outside with an

11:53
insulation product before they sheath or zip also has a product that is

11:58
insulation built into the sheathing. But again, adding an extra layer of

12:03
expense. So, to answer your question on that affordability, yes, it's directly

12:09
transferable. So, not only are you not paying for the labor to install that extra sheathing on the outside, but

12:16
you're going to save on the energy efficiency itself when it comes time to heat and cool that structure.

12:22
Okay. Well, speaking of heating, right, you guys use a radiant concrete floor system, correct?

12:27
Yeah. So, how does that also contribute to the heating efficiency of the home?

12:33
Well, um, in a in a lot of ways. So, I just did a a series of uh YouTube videos

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about Radiant Floor, trying to weed out the the the tribal knowledge or the

12:48
hearsay and the rumors. Also, the biggest misconception is that it's it's

12:54
unaffordable. Well, if you're building a barnaminium, you're typically building

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on a concrete slab anyways. So, the inherent cost of putting the floor in

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are the same. It's still got to be insulated and it's still going to be concrete.

13:09
The only thing you're doing different is you're adding radiant loops within that concrete that you're going to pass your

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hot water through to heat up that structure. You already have a water heater cuz

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you're using it for your showers and your tap water. So, you use the same hot water heater,

13:28
but you don't have to put in a forced air furnace when you do a radiant floor system. you can, but it's redundancy.

13:36
Um, so that kind of it's almost a null argument that it's inherently more

13:42
expensive. At Fortified Buildings, we have done all of our own radiant floor installs. So

13:51
that direct um operation keeping in house also saves

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clients money because plumbers will typically there's not

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there's not a lot of people that specialize in it and to have enough work to do it

14:09
becomes almost um financially unfeasible

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because people just charge an arm and a leg to put loops s down in the concrete before the pouring.

14:21
Um, but by doing it in house, it's it's just a matter of a we can have a whole

14:27
house ready for concrete within 24 hours. Um, so one day's wages, you know,

14:33
on the guys, it's really what it costs. Um, but

14:39
incredible efficiencies when it comes to that radiant floor because it's not just

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radiating heat up through the house from the ground, which is where the heat needs to originate,

14:51
but it's a thermal mass which creates it's it's a battery. Um, no matter how

14:58
much cold air in the wintertime is infiltrating that structure,

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it's being absorbed by that concrete floor in a matter of seconds. Um, I

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mean, you're talking a concrete floor that weighs more than the rest of the house combined. I mean, it's 90,000 lbs

15:16
of concrete in some situations. Just incredible amount of stored energy

15:23
in the concrete. Wow. You know, I think people get the the concept of it being so expensive

15:30
because when you do watch, you know, different shows on like HGTV and on YouTube, you are only seeing that being

15:37
put into luxury homes. Yeah. You never see it being put into an everyday home. So, it automatically has

15:45
this high dollar ticket price on it in in people's minds, right? Abs. Absolutely.

15:51
Exactly. heated floors, heated kitchen floors, bathroom floors is like, "Oh, that's some next place,"

15:56
right? It's like, "Oh, when I get some money, I want a house like that, right?" Yeah. And there's there's no reason why

16:02
it shouldn't be looked at in in the sense of luxury because it is

16:08
it is luxury, but it's also very affordable. Um, it doesn't take a rocket

16:14
science scientist to put it into the concrete. That for a couple hundred in

16:20
tools and staples, it can be installed before any concrete is poured.

16:26
But what I really wanted to touch in on was um

16:32
that uh earlier comment you said about it being on,

16:38
how do I want to say it? luxury meets affordability with in that regard.

16:46
But a lot of the high-end uh builds that you do see on HDTV or in

16:52
magazines, they're also utilizing um geothermal heating for their floor,

17:00
which is another added layer of efficiency, but geothermal in itself is not

17:06
affordable. It's a very expensive operation. So,

17:11
but yes, it's a very very efficient when done that way. Also, um like a lot of those shows, it's

17:17
like aftermarket. Like the house is already built. So, you're off the floor and you're adding something in. So, I can see how

17:23
that would like increase cost or whatever. But what you're saying is you're building it right into the foundation. Like, it's just you're

17:29
pouring the concrete anyway, so we might as well add some nice heating in there. Exactly.

17:35
Yeah. Exactly. And so this this can handle like cold winters like

17:41
minus30s and minus4s because you said you don't need a um well that's Celsius. Sorry.

17:47
I don't know what that would be in Fahrenheit. That's probably really cold, right? Yeah, that's pretty cold. But

17:53
it's pretty cold, but it could still showing. It could still do it though.

18:00
Okay. I don't know what that is in Fahrenheit. Um, but that's cold in can in Canada. Um, because you said you

18:08
don't need a furnace, right? So, um, like in in I guess a Minnesota winter, I

18:14
suppose it can. Yeah. So, a a furnace is what everybody's used to. Anybody that's

18:20
lived in an apartment or a house has pretty much heated their their space with a furnace.

18:27
the the inefficiencies of a furnace lie in that it has to turn over the air

18:32
within the home. So, it has to physically heat that space up every time it's turned on. Whereas, the floor can

18:39
sit completely stagnant for hours. It doesn't run continuously. It only once

18:45
it dips below a certain threshold, it kicks back on and heats back up. But

18:52
the air coming in the house, whether a window or a door,

18:57
the thermostat's not reading that directly and saying, "I need to call for temperature." Cuz that's what you're

19:02
feeling. You're feeling the coldness of the temperature. Whereas radiant floors,

19:07
they do just that. They radiate the heat to you. So you feel the temperature in a

19:13
different manner than it just being cold in the house. It's a completely different category.

19:20
But to touch on that um what you said about you know people adding radiant floor to existing spaces that works

19:28
great but also it's typically over a subfloor system a very lightweight

19:33
installation. So there's not a lot of thermal efficiency to that system either. Right?

19:41
So you're you're only relying on the amount of energy that's coming out of the floor versus it being a thermal

19:47
mass.

19:54
Very cool stuff. Very cool stuff. I used to like walk on warm floor, too.

19:59
When I turn it off in the spring in my house, it's like it's like I kind of wish I would leave it on because it's so

20:05
warm on your feet. Yeah. Well, that sounds I like that though. I want some cozy feet. I live in Florida.

20:12
Even though it gets hot here all the time, I'm northern Florida. So, even if you don't heat the floor, you

20:18
got to think that the the natural temperature of the earth is like 65 degrees. So, and walking on that, it's

20:25
it can feel pretty cold on your feet. Oh, yeah. Oh, definitely. Definitely. So

20:32
like when people picture like a barnaminium, right, and kind of picturing like these steel

20:38
industrialsized like buildings, you know, how do you design the facade so it looks more like a traditional home?

20:45
And well, in a lot of situations, the consumer wants some of that

20:52
commercialish look. Um, which is kind of what brought them to popularity. I think

20:59
that people like the fact that it looks a little bit commercial. It is a lot less maintenance than a, you know, a

21:05
sided house or something like that, but at a very easy tradeoff of it just

21:12
being a steel product. Um, the siding can be can can be whatever you want it

21:18
to be. So the workaround to that is if somebody does want let's say James Hardy

21:25
you know cement board well we can do that we just have to sheathe before we

21:30
do that. Um so to take full advantage of the of the design itself the steel

21:37
product is your best and most affordable option. Secondly, maybe splitting that

21:43
with maybe a little bit of a ways scotting. And that way scotting could be three feet up of brick or stone or even

21:51
a an alternate steel product. Maybe we install the steel horizontally and give

21:56
it a different break in the wall. Um, so but a lot of it also comes into roof

22:03
lines. When you have just a simple box type of structure, it looks very

22:09
commercial. It looks simple and and functional, but you can add dormers, you

22:14
add the porches, you add very very heavy beams on your porches and

22:20
wood wrap cedar posts. It really brings it out to shine as a home.

22:26
Yeah. Somebody um I drive by one um

22:32
every day taking my daughter to the gym and they literally just finished the construction on it about a month ago.

22:38
So, you've seen like they're now starting to move in and everybody because of the way it's situated on the

22:43
road like you're always peeking in, you know, every day to see like where they were at like with the process. But it's

22:49
I mean it's a beautiful home and it's they used black steel. So all their the whole outside is black, the

22:56
roof is black, but it looks just so cool. like this industrial barn in the middle of like this street and then

23:03
right behind it they're building a brand new like uh regular development. So it's like you

23:09
go right around the corner and now you see like regular traditional homes but it's still a cool breakup and like just

23:15
the scenery. Yep. Yep. Yep. If you if you think back onto some of the methods of why traditional

23:22
systems were the way they are is water shedding. That was the primary reason

23:28
for any house to be um sided or to be roofed was you had to get the water off

23:35
of the structure. And the only way to do that was through a shingling method. And that could be a a lap sighting um actual

23:42
shingles, shake shingles. Cedar shingle shingles were used for eons.

23:48
Yeah. But that that kept everything from getting through that with very low

23:54
technology when it comes to house wraps. So the house wraps in a lot of cases,

24:00
you know, 1800s was, you know, some sort of tar paper or not at all. And they had

24:07
to rely on the shingle effect to keep water off of the structure. In today's world, the steel does it all in one. Not

24:15
the house wrap per se, but we don't have to shingle anything. So, it led to this

24:22
culture of wanting that look. So, everything was sided with the the notion

24:28
that we're going to imitate the traditional way things looked and it

24:33
just it is what it is and that's what people are used to. Yeah. True. Well, do you face any

24:39
challenges from like HOAs or zoning due to the fact of, you know, the facade and

24:44
the way the homes look? I would say so. In our experience, no, we haven't because 90% of our clientele

24:54
is rural or rural. Anyways, um so no

25:00
HOAs or zoning compliance with any of that stuff, which is which is a really

25:05
good reason why um I saw the opportunity moving to Indiana to start this industry

25:12
um because of the lack of zoning issues that we would be running into.

25:18
Now, I think it's a matter more of um education than it is a matter of

25:25
compliance. I don't think anything that we're doing doesn't fall into compliance.

25:31
Additionally, when we start building communities, the the HOA actually originates with the

25:39
developer. Correct. So, I would have complete oversight as

25:44
an organization to implement an HOA that is supportive of the homes we're

25:50
building, right? It would just make sense. But if we go into a neighborhood,

25:57
we could also forego any thought of having an HOA and turn it over to the people in that

26:03
neighborhood to start their own LLC to or petition to start an HOA. Leave it to

26:10
their, you know, kind of right to choose, if you will. Um, I personally am

26:15
not an HOA fan, but um, I know that a lot of people do want that enforcement,

26:23
but when it comes to compliance, we haven't ran into a single issue. In fact, one of our very first client

26:31
builds was an FHA loan, and it met every standard

26:37
it needed to to be. The biggest issue we found was that their property was almost not big enough for their well and septic

26:44
to be far enough apart. But we did achieve it. But the house itself passed

26:50
with flying colors through an FHA loan. That's that's wonderful because they

26:55
have lots of, you know, restrictions um and requirements just like, you know,

27:01
any of the governmentbacked loans do. So that says that says a lot. Yeah, it does. And I'm glad we got that

27:08
one out of the way because I was I'm not going to say nervous, but I was a little hesitant on its um the push back that

27:16
I'd be getting on it. But the the other thing that

27:23
uh this this used to be kind of a hush hush, but I'm going to say it out in the open here, is when you don't mention the

27:31
word barnaminium because it's a style and not a

27:37
not a traditional barnaminium anymore that

27:42
if you don't use the word when you are talking to a lender it's probably never

27:48
going to be brought up but to simply call it a custom home you

27:54
know a custom home build when you're starting this process I think you're going to be a light year ahead than

28:00
having any push back on the term baraminium okay well for marketing.

28:06
Yes, it's cool for marketing. Not so Exactly. Not not so cool for the lender. It's a It's a flashy blingy word.

28:14
Yeah, absolutely. I like saying it.

28:20
Well, currently we are working on a project for you. So, um, and I know your

28:25
current project, it's about doing the speck homes. So, how do you

28:30
feel that that fits into your bigger vision of creating the Barnuminium subdivisions?

28:36
So what I really feel as a as a goal, a

28:42
personal goal is to make this

28:48
make this known to people cuz I don't there are people out there that don't

28:53
like the look of a standard barnaminium but once people see it more and more I think they the more and more they start

28:59
coming around to it. However, it's a personal goal of mine

29:06
to actually be able to deliver something that is fundamentally sound

29:14
than not trying to how do I want to say push

29:19
push a narrative that is kind of misleading because the inefficiencies that lie

29:27
within the traditional way of building homes, it's It's no reason why

29:35
affordable housing is almost not a thing anymore, right? I mean, you you take you take a

29:42
traditional home and um

29:47
on average maybe 6 8 months to build a regular home, normal crew.

29:53
Well, there's overhead to that house

29:58
from day one. So no matter how long it takes from 6 months to 8 months to a

30:04
year that overhead is still there no matter the size of it. Okay.

30:09
So to to make it affordable you have to shorten the duration that it takes to

30:14
build. So how do you shorten the duration without going modular

30:19
and you know factory built components which don't meet FHA requirements that

30:25
you you get your shell up you get your guys out of the elements instantly. So

30:31
in two or three days a whole barnaminium shell can be built and you're working inside out of the rain. That is

30:38
incredible. Yes, that is. So when you're when you start comparing time frames and weather,

30:46
inclement weather and all that kind of stuff, there's almost nothing that holds us back. Breaking ground is the hardest

30:52
part. We don't want to do that in December and January where it's cold and

30:58
and hard. But if you could get your foundation in before that and get your structure up,

31:04
you can come back to it in December and January when you know, whatever you needed to do as an organization. Um,

31:12
but it's it's it's about time frames and it's

31:18
about efficiencies. So, by not sheathing the house, there's three days of an

31:24
operation right there saved that they can't do in inclement weather, right?

31:30
So, by throwing our our our framing up and getting our steel on the outside,

31:35
we're done. We're It's downhill from there. Wow. Well, since you just kind of walked

31:41
us through some of the process of doing the exterior, then what goes next with the interior?

31:46
Interiors, um, interiors are fun because the they pose some challenges with post

31:53
framing, but not not as much as you would kind of think. Um, so for the

32:02
hardest thing that we have to fight with the interior is

32:08
relying on our plumber and our quality control methods to make sure that our plumbing's in the right spot. If that

32:14
got moved or shifted or bumped during concrete pouring, it can move a wall a few inches or

32:20
something like that. But we have to meet those requirements of where the fixtures

32:27
are coming through the slab and build our walls around that. But as long as

32:32
they're within tolerance or, you know, within reason of where they need to be,

32:37
it is it's just simply framing out the inside. Um

32:44
the insulation is also another heavy area to talk about and I

32:51
don't want to dive into it with this in this interview but more so

32:56
that with an 8 and 1/2 in thick exterior wall with zero thermal bridging using our

33:05
go-to method of cellulose is a 90% recycled product that is

33:13
tried and true for a long time. It's been it's actually been redesigned I

33:18
think back in the 80s with the chemicals they put in it, but

33:24
it's the cheapest product we can put in. When I say cheapest, most inexpensive

33:30
and it's it yields the best sound deadening and it has a little bit of an

33:36
advantage when it comes over spray foam. Now, spray foam is a great product, but

33:42
in nine out of 10's applications, it's more expensive and it's going to be a lot less thick.

33:50
So, not a full cavity um when installed. So, the cellulose

33:58
fills the whole cavity, which gives you the most sound deadening that we have we can get.

34:03
But framing the inside's easy. I mean, it's a matter of going across it. There's no loadbearing structure on the

34:10
inside. It's completely supported by the truss systems that are designed for the house. Um, if you live in a house for 20

34:17
years and don't like it, you could literally gut the whole thing and start over. You know, the only thing that has

34:23
to stay the same is the is your toilet. That's about the only thing that can't move.

34:28
Oh, wow. Yeah. And the flooring. Yeah. Yeah. If you don't like the concrete, you can

34:34
cover it up. People are um sometimes get distracted that they they're like, "I

34:41
don't like concrete." Well, do you not like the look of concrete or do you don't like the idea of concrete? Because

34:46
you can cover it up with whatever you want. The only um limitation to it is you don't want to

34:54
have different coverings within each individual zone of heating. So, you

35:00
don't want half of that zone to be carpet and the other half of it to be tile. Um, you want to cover that whole zone so

35:07
that it's radiating the same amount of heat throughout its heating zone.

35:12
But you could have different floorings in different rooms though. Absolutely. Yeah. Just not.

35:18
Okay. Okay. So, we have learned about the efficiency through

35:26
the shell, through the posts, through the interior with the cellulose.

35:32
So, what do you think is the long-term savings to the homeowner due to all of

35:38
those different methods to make the home more heat efficient, cooling efficient?

35:43
What do you think? Um, I'd say there's two areas that I'm going to talk on there. One is is the

35:50
energy efficiency. So, how how affordable it is going to be to heat and

35:55
cool that home. um with it being paired with lifetime products that are

36:02
installed on the roof and the siding of the home. So, your maintenance costs are completely reduced on to the life of the

36:10
home. You'll never have to, you know, unless you know a car runs into it or,

36:15
you know, somebody hits it outside with a baseball bat, you don't have to ever touch the outside of your home. Um,

36:24
so maybe a maybe a spring cleaning here and there, washing it off, something like that. But

36:31
the primary is going to be in the afford affordability of the upfront cost,

36:38
which translates to what is traditionally known as kind of

36:44
an oxymoron. having an affordable energy efficient home,

36:51
you're going to save on your heating and cooling bills for for decades. And then not only that, but the technology is

36:58
getting so great with these boiler systems and on demand water systems.

37:03
Their prices are continuingly come down. I remember buying my first in like 2016,

37:11
my first hot water heater on demand. It was like $3,000.

37:16
I'm putting them in all day long. High-end um on demand water heaters for

37:22
$1,000. So if that if that ever goes out, you're

37:28
only going to be out a thousand bucks, you know, on that. Whereas it would be like $1,000 to have

37:33
somebody come out and fix it back. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And there

37:39
if with the technology and and the growing of YouTube, you could watch a video and probably swap it out yourself.

37:45
Most people could. Yeah, it's true. And a lot of people now, depending on where they live, are

37:51
um opting for tankless water heaters. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And that's and that's what I

37:57
mean by on demand water heaters is the tankless ones. So they're they're light. I mean, you can you just screw it to the

38:02
wall and you're hook up your gas line and your your water pipes. You're done.

38:08
One other big thing that is kind of overlooked on the on the radiant floor heating method, if you're on propane,

38:15
it's it's a energyless supply. So, meaning you don't

38:21
have to power it to heat, right? It's always there. It's got pressure on it as long as there's propane in the tank. And

38:27
the same thing with your natural gas. If you're using a resistance heating or a heat pump for it, it's going to take

38:34
more energy. But this system, if we had a blackout, the smallest generator that

38:40
I can go buy at the store, will heat my home because all I've got are two two

38:46
water pumps that circulate the water through the floor and I think like

38:54
100 watts of power to for the water heater to actually operate. It uses very

39:01
very little electricity. Wow. It's incredible. That's that's like that's amazing. You

39:07
know, like I since I live in Florida, you know, we are the storm capital of likeanes, right? So when we have no

39:13
power, it's for days and you're lucky if you have a generator that maybe powers your refrigerator and you could charge

39:19
some phones, you know, forget AC, you know, just you're just you're just hot

39:25
and miserable. So like to be able to still effectively like keep the house

39:33
comfortable is that on a off a generator that's amazing to me. Yeah. Yeah.

39:38
Yeah. That that's not not just a generator that like the

39:43
smallest one you can buy like Yeah. It's it's going to do it.

39:49
That's cool though. So let me see. So where do you see the future of Barnaminiums and affordable housing

39:55
market?

40:03
I think it's I think it's definitely going to start evolving um to be more

40:08
mainstream. Um I think that once we prove a scalable model, I think there's

40:14
going to be a boatload that comes in with the tide behind us. Um,

40:22
I just don't I just I cannot see a world where people aren't

40:29
understanding that a a home can be built less expensive, bought for less,

40:36
and be more energy efficient doesn't excel in today's world.

40:43
I just I just don't see it. That's true. I, you know, when you look at people and the different

40:49
alternatives, this is more of an actual home versus where you're seeing people with like the modular container homes,

40:56
you know, because that's a lot of work to just convert an actual freight contra

41:01
like a freight container into some type of home. Yeah. So, and this is a way more affordable

41:09
method, you know, you have a home like that doesn't need all those things,

41:14
right? And it's and we're not getting crazy with our ideas. We're using systems that work, products that have

41:21
been around for centuries and just just implementing them in a fashion

41:28
that makes this whole thing come together. So we're we're not using, you know, I I

41:34
don't know if you heard of ICF, you know, insulated concrete forms. They're great. I mean, they're they're

41:39
awesome, but it's it's a not everybody can just pick it up and go

41:45
do it. I mean, when we talk about our post framing, I can hire any framing

41:50
crew in the in the United States that I want to put the structure up. It's nothing different than that anything

41:56
they can do. Um, it can really go a long ways when it

42:02
comes to lending operations and like I like I said earlier compliance and

42:08
zoning and all that kind of stuff. It's just really a matter of people being

42:13
educated and understanding what it truly is. I will say that with certainty that if

42:19
you got on some of the forums on, you know, Facebook or the groups,

42:25
most people that want these want a bigger structure. Why? Because they can typically afford to go further with

42:32
their footprint with for the same amount of money. So, why not build a community? Why not

42:37
build a neighborhood that is regular, you know, affordable housing category 1,800 square foot homes with a garage

42:45
that are cheaper and more energy efficient. It's a win-win.

42:51
Absolutely. It's a win-win for the homeowner. It's also a win-win for the environment in

42:57
that area, right? You've got a smaller carbon footprint. Um, you know, the home's more energy efficient. You

43:04
know, it's a it's a win-win for everybody, for the community, for the homeowners. I think, you know, I think it's a great idea.

43:10
Absolutely. Yeah. So, for all of our listeners who want to learn more, get involved, like

43:15
what is the best way for them to contact you and Fortified Building? Um, Fortified Buildings can be reached

43:22
directly through an email, which is probably the fastest way to get a hold of us outside of, you know, my my direct

43:28
phone number. Um, fortified.com will take you to a contact page or my

43:35
email is just simply my name atgmail.com. leviabberlygmail.com.

43:42
Um, and if you search my name on Facebook or Instagram, it'll take you to

43:47
any of my business pages there where you can find a plethora of information. But

43:52
Fortified Buildings at um fortifiedbuildings.com is our website.

43:58
put it in the chat for everybody who's here. Yeah. Do we have any questions from

44:05
anybody who's here? Comments or anything? By the way, I Googled um minus

44:11
20. It's minus4.

44:17
To answer your question, yes, it could still handle that. It would. Okay, there we go. Now we know minus 20

44:24
is minus4. So, we learned something else today. Yeah. No.

44:31
Um, oh, we have somebody who's raised his hand. Don Mccalpine. Don. Okay, Don, I'm gonna allow you to

44:38
talk. Uh, which I believe will bring you on camera here. Are you okay with that?

44:44
Oh, and then Ronnie also. You guys can also put your um question in the qu the

44:51
Q&A or in the chat if you don't want to go on camera. So, Don, I'm gonna allow

44:57
you to talk. Thank you for uh giving me the

45:04
opportunity. Uh, a couple questions. What do you do about cooling for the units?

45:09
Oh, that's a great question. Um, so we typically will run a traditional

45:14
um HVAC system for cooling. Um there's a little bit of advantage to it because

45:22
with the concrete the AC duct typically has to go through the you know through the ceiling or through the rafter space

45:30
of the structure which is where cooling excels because it's denser and it wants to fall to the ground. Um that's just

45:38
thermodynamics. Um additionally in the summer months

45:43
your concrete floor is it's shaded. It's naturally a lot cooler. So, it doesn't

45:49
take quite as much energy to cool it as if you had a subfloor system or a crawl

45:56
space. That makes sense. But you got to run some duct work. Yeah. So, we we typically always have a

46:01
duct work system for AC um which you know is not a direct um

46:10
in any of the HVAC systems today. They're typically zoned in two ways.

46:15
heating and cooling, but when you're only doing a cooling system,

46:21
it saves costs on the HVAC install. Okay. And then uh you mentioned in the

46:28
beginning, excuse me, talking about the lenders, what do you go to banks or do you use private money or third party

46:35
loans? Like how do you get these things funded as a builder or as a customer? As a builder.

46:40
As a builder. So we we do it. Um so as as Mhola brought up, we're working with

46:45
them to start a fund. Um so we will be raising funds in in that regard, but in

46:52
the past we've always gone through um bank lenders to get our our spec homes

46:57
built. Okay. And then um

47:03
lastly, is there any government uh incentives to build these types of homes since they're so energy efficient and

47:09
you're quot you're building, you know, affordable housing? Is there any financing available from the government

47:15
for these or tax credits or Yeah. You know, that's really an area that we haven't dove into research- wise

47:22
because I'm sure they probably do. Um, I'm sure there's definitely credits and

47:27
grants and stuff out there for this, but where we're really trying to dominate is

47:33
just simply offering an affordable house to people that people can just afford.

47:40
And uh, but to answer your question, I don't know off the top of my head. I'm sure um

47:48
there's plenty of affordable housing professionals out there that would probably be able to give me some really

47:55
awesome information, but I just don't know off the top of my head. And for the structures themselves, do

48:00
you have suppliers that you're ordering? Are these kits or like where are you getting the the home?

48:06
Yeah, that's that's a that's also an awesome point. So, I get calls all the time from people who want a custom home

48:12
or a barnaminium built and they say, "Hey, you know what? What's the price? I

48:17
found this kit. Can you put it up?" Well, there's two sides to that because kits

48:23
are awesome for people that want to do it themselves. We design our houses to be ordered from

48:30
a supplier with everything built to our specifications. So, it's it comes on a

48:36
truck as a kit, but everything is raw product. We're cutting everything to

48:42
size and putting it together just the same way as a, you know, a stick frame house would be. You call your lumber

48:48
supply and you say, "Hey, I need, you know, x amount of 2x4s, 2x six's, sheathing, so on and so forth." Ours

48:56
comes the same way, but the kits typically will cost you more than if you

49:02
have a builder supply the materials. And I say that because I've seen it a lot of

49:08
times people will get it and they want it installed. There's a lot of inconsistencies

49:15
for I want to say slowdowns. Menard's is a great company, but they supply barn barn

49:23
kits. Okay. When we've installed those in the past, we end up having to buy more materials because if you don't

49:30
follow their they don't number anything. They don't lay it out in a userfriendly

49:36
manner. So if you use it, it comes with exactly as many boards as you need. If

49:41
you cut one wrong or whatever, you are going back to the store anyways versus

49:47
us just factoring that in and having it delivered once. So I hope I answered that question.

49:54
Yeah. No, it was great. Thank you very much. Very interesting. Perfect.

49:59
So, it's like if you lose the little Allen key from your IKEA furniture. Yeah,

50:06
exactly. Now, I got to go buy a whole Allen wrench set because you got to buy the whole kit.

50:13
Um, all right, Don, I'm going to remove you. And I hope it doesn't remove you from the whole entire webinar. If it

50:20
does, please come back. Um, just removing you from here. No problem.

50:26
Now it says you can't remove from the webinar. I don't understand how this works sometimes. I'm just gonna hide you

50:32
there. You're still here. It doesn't do what it says on the tin zoom. Um, and Ronnie um just uh he

50:40
doesn't have his hand raised anymore. He just wanted to say that the correct website address is fortified

50:46
buildingslc.com. So we forgot the LLC. I think I think it

50:51
routes in both ways, but got probably right. Yeah, there we go. Um, any other

50:58
questions or comments from from anyone here? This is such a fascinating

51:05
what what's like the resale like like what so you know I mean I'm thinking when when I'm in this conversation I'm

51:11
thinking gosh we are in such a housing crisis and people really need homes and

51:17
so many people just can barely afford rent let alone buying something you know and so this seems to be a really nice um

51:24
solution going forward right for people. Um, but then there's the flip side of it

51:30
where people buy houses for that resale and hoping that it's going to make money and then they can retire on that money

51:36
or whatever. How does that work with with with these types of properties? So, this is a this is a great um great

51:44
rabbit hole that I catch myself going down all the time. So, if we're offering communities and and selling individual

51:51
homes to people, our goal is to sell them with equity because if we can if

51:57
somebody can go to the bank and it's appraising at 80% of value or you know, we're our

52:05
asking price is 80% of value. That's a zero down payment. They can they don't

52:11
have to put a single penny down to close that loan. That's awesome. and then they've got 20% equity on day one.

52:18
That's where the glory of this whole process starts coming together. But when it comes to resale value down, you know,

52:24
5 10 years down the road, these are lifetime products that are on the outside of these homes. As long as the

52:30
inside you take care of it like you do any home, you still have the same standards and maintenance inside.

52:37
You can wash your house, have a power washing company come out, clean it up, and it's going to look just as good 10

52:43
years from now as it did the day you bought it. So, I don't think there's anything else that's going to stand that

52:49
test of time like like the steel products do, right? Can you paint steel? Like, what

52:55
if you don't like the You can you can, but it' probably be more affordable to simply swap it out. I

53:01
mean, you you can it wouldn't take you but somebody with a simple hex driver

53:06
and an impact gun could swap out a steel panel or do a whole side of a house in

53:12
no time. And I'm assuming it's easy to add like additions like can you build stories?

53:19
Oh, it's perfect for that. It's absolutely perfect. So, the the infrastructure is already there

53:25
ready to be tied into when if you wanted to do an addition. In fact, a lot of our

53:30
homes because people want to maximize 

their footprint and with appraisals being the way they are where we are. Um,

53:37
I say that because they don't factor in value to a lot of the shop or garage space square footage. So, people end up

53:44
putting that into a little bit bigger of a home, but they do it they build just the house

53:51
and then they're going to do the garage next year once they refi, once they're, you know, got can pull a little bit of

53:56
money out of it. That's the glory to it. And it's the same, you know, it's

54:02
it's easier than a traditional house where you've got foundation tie-ins.

54:07
You've got a lot of thought stuff to think about. Sounds really cool. I want one.

54:14
Um, does it come in any other color than black? AJ,

54:19
yes. Um, in fact, the the printing companies, I say printing because

54:25
traditionally Sherwin Williams has dominated the market when it comes to the steel coatings, the uh bake on

54:31
epoxies that they coat the steels with. Um, nowadays they're printing them in a

54:37
fashion where you can do so much. I mean, they're they're doing wood grains, they're doing metallics. When I say

54:43
metallic, sparklies, they're they have crinkle coats nowadays. So, but to do a

54:50
custom color that's outside of like the 15 or 16 standard colors, um, you would

54:56
have to buy and depending on how big your project is, might might be beneficial, but you'd have to buy a full

55:03
coil of of stock, which would be thousands of dollars

55:10
to get a custom color. But you could you could literally choose any color you wanted.

55:15
That's fun. I love all the colors. That's our advantage to working directly with the manufacturers who are making

55:20
the products. So you could have like a rainbow house, you can have a

55:26
You could Yeah. We saw I recently saw on Facebook a one of the

55:32
groups a guy did a big American flag with different color steel on the ceiling of his shop. I mean

55:38
Oh wow. It's really cool. Yeah, I like this.

55:43
Yeah, I want one. Well, then are you moving to America?

55:49
No. Well, I was just gonna say come to Canada.

55:56
Maybe. Maybe in a maybe in a little while we might be coming to Canada. Yeah. Yeah.

56:02
I mean, Vancouver definitely needs some affordable housing because out there, well, there's no room for housing.

56:08
That's why it's so expensive. I mean, it's so dense here and it's this tiny little island where everybody wants to

56:14
live, you know, so we'd have to go outside. Yeah. There's more room in Ontario and

56:20
the rest of the the rest of the country. Just Yeah. Yeah. Well, that um t talking

56:26
about demographics or ge geographics a little bit, the um these can be built

56:33
anywhere. The hardest part of building any of these is going to be

56:39
within city limits. And like you said, the building in a neighborhood that has existing HOAs.

56:46
That's going to be the hard part for anybody wanting to build a custom home. But again, you can design the facade of

56:53
it to look like a regular house. Um, but they meet higher wind standards, wind

57:00
wind load rating than traditionally stick built homes. So, they're

57:05
inherently stronger. They're thicker, more energy efficient, cheaper to build, and longer lasting. I don't I I don't

57:14
know what else to say about it. We need some more of those in Florida. Yeah.

57:19
Hurricane season, you see. So, so I mean, yes, they Florida has upgraded the

57:25
building code, you know, especially after Hurricane Andrew over the years, and they've done it multiple times, but

57:32
you see the devastation, you know, I mean, these homes just fall apart,

57:38
crumble. Yep. Yep. And you Yeah. You see videos of them literally being pulled off their foundation. I mean, it just it's crazy.

57:45
But yeah, and and a sad reality is that we're

57:51
to build homes that really withstand hurricanes and tornadoes and stuff like that, there's pretty much no work around

57:58
to right um combating that kind of environment.

58:04
The regardless of the windows you use, regardless of uh the structure, unless

58:09
it's completely made out of concrete, which is a huge cost, right?

58:15
people can't afford it, right? It's it's just it's just going to cost a lot more to

58:20
build. We have a builder out here that um they gave an option on certain models. You

58:26
can choose to have the thick frame or have a concrete house. So like but the

58:32
price difference was crazy between having a traditional stick frame home

58:38
and a concrete home. Yeah. Yeah. And that that's always been a a weird um curiosity of mine is like

58:46
we we live in the 21st century. Why do we allow hail to damage our roof?

58:52
You know, like the the simple things, right? It's really crazy. But

58:59
yeah, hopefully we can start revolutionizing the industry and start making this type

59:04
of thing more common so that people start coming on board with utilizing methods and

59:11
technology of the 21st century. But I mean, we're seeing you see more a lot more people are now starting to use

59:17
the steel roofs versus shingles, right? They have a 30-year lifespan. Yeah.

59:23
and so much more efficient than having to keep replacing your roof after a storm or, you know, different parts of

59:30
your roof. So, you're seeing that pick up way more out here. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And they

59:37
there even around here, people that are replacing the roofs, they're going with steel. Yeah. So, and it's standard for us. So, Right.

59:48
Wow. So fascinating. Well, we're at the top of the hour. Um, this has been a really interesting conversation. Thank

59:54
you. Yes. Yeah. And like I see I'm a futurist, right? I see, you know, future trends

1:00:00
and things like this and this is definitely one of them. For sure. I think this is one of them for sure. For sure.

1:00:06
Yeah. So, just keep going. We're going. It's it's it's all or nothing.

1:00:12
Yeah. Wonderful. And thank you for being here. Uh, Don said this was awesome.

1:00:18
Thank you. Thank you all of the um attendees. Thank you, Mhola. Uh do you

1:00:23
have any last parting words, Levi, before we let you go? Um,

1:00:29
no. But, um, if anybody hasn't, um, I I would I would start bringing this up in

1:00:34
conversations more and more, you know, start start mentioning this idea to people because really getting the

1:00:41
information out there or people hearing the term barnaminium. I can't tell you how many times I I run into somebody and

1:00:48
they're like, "What's that?" You know, like you said at the beginning, the more people that hear it, the more people are

1:00:54
going to research it. Not only am I going to get more work, but it's going to start growing us society. So,

1:01:01
right. Yeah. Wonderful. All right. Thank you. All right, everybody. So, go spread the

1:01:07
word. Yes. Barnaminiums. All right. Thank you so much. Thank you.

1:01:13
Bye, everyone. Thank you. Bye.